These are the notes from the The 587th Meeting of Noisebridge.
help take notes at - https://pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting
video meeting on zoom at - https://zoom.us/j/972291454
- Date: July 14th, 2020
- Note-taker: bfb
- Pre-Meeting Moderator: FIXME YOUR NAME HERE
- Moderators: J
FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST One or two bullet
points of high-level meeting summary. TLDR what happened at the
- New philanthropists:
- New members:
- Consensus Items:
- Discussion Items:
Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.
(What does that mean? How does the Anti-Harassment Policy fit into this?
Are we SURE we know what being Excellent is? This is an important and
fundamental conversation at Noisebridge, so let’s give it like 120
Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge.
(What does that mean? How do you get a door key? Access to Slack,
A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the
community to open and close the space.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Philanthropists? How do you
become one? etc)
Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Members? How do you become
a Member? etc)
Guilds are how groups at noisebridge organize.
(What is a guild? How do you join one? etc)
Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge
(How does Consensus work? What types of things are good for formal
Consensus? What is small-c consensus? What is a “block”?)
- Mark - do stuff with video games, just cleaned out the videogame
locker, going to be working moving the videogame stuff. Also working
on the guilds project with a few people. Guilds will be discussed at
the guild report.
J: What’s the status of moving the videogame stuff. M: Currently coming
in a moving a little bit at a time. Storing most things at my apt until
we get into the new place. Plan to get rid of the video game shelf, get
a truck to move big things like the arcade cabinate. Will need
volunteers to support. PM me on slack/discuss @mark.
- Pyconaut-He him- Doing VR and anime stuff
- James - Moderator of mtg. Coordinating moving of music equipment to
the new space.
- Ryan (pyconaut) discord, VR and neurotech’s
- X - general space hacker here and at sudo, etc. into electronics
hardware among other things. Recommends getting in touch with
Crucible in Oakland for metalworking. Once upon a time there was a
place called the BoxShop in SF, Hunters Point, that specialized in
welding as well.
- Tyler - he/him - also lurk’n. Will drop in financial info
- Christian - dabble in a lot of things. work for a biotech company
right now. looking for a welder to do some work on a project.
add yourself to prompt for intro’s here…
Short announcements and events
60-second description per item in bulletpoint.
- Video game equipment being packed up for the move by Mark.
- NeurotechX SF hacknights meets Thursdays 6-9pm, recordings of our
meetings are on NeurotcchX youtube.
This weekend is a neurotech and gaming event that the larger neurotechX
group is doing. Link to be added here. It’s free! from slack "What if
you could connect your brain and body to a video game? Join free online
NeurotechGaming 2020 event. Presentations from Valve (Counter-Strike,
Half-Life), Teslasuit (full body haptic suit), Neurable (everyday BCI
that combines VR and EEG), Brink Bionics (increasing the speed of
reaction in games) and others.
Crucible link please! https://www.thecrucible.org/
- Ⅹ 4th week and 4 sponsors - been around for a number of meetings now
prior to the membership app, talked to a number of folks here. Any
questions? Sponsored by lxpk, kevin, … refers to notes …, naomi,
James: Would you talk briefly about what you think membership means?
X: Generally speaking, membership is a more specific committment,
financially contributing dues, one additional responsibility/right on
full membership to block consensus, keep certain items from coming
forward as concensus. excellent not to block things, used as a way to
create more conversation about how to come to consensus. i’ve enjoyed
many years of coming to NB not as a Member. Making a point this time,
there’s a lot going on, I’m involved in a lot of things. The space needs
members to help cultivate other members. Part of this is being more
visible/more accessible to the community. Also to help maintain the
history and practices that we could lose over the years.
Ryan: What do you want to do as a Member/member of the community?
X: Set good examples and best practices for doing things. Near term
contributions include organizing around the move in tandem with the
pandemic. Involved in helping complete the lease at 272 Capp Street.
Helping to outfit and upgrade the new space. How to move in and continue
to use it. Also starting to backfill the Secretary role at Noisebridge.
Members help to ensure essential roles are filled.
Ryan: Do you know how to give a tour at Noisebridge.
X: Right now I know how to point people to youtube videos of excellent
tours. Also familiar with how to introduce new folks to the space and
will figure out how to do that at the new space.
James: What’s the process for this given it’s 4-weeks.
Kevin: Ask X to leave while we discuss their membership.
Dan: X will be exiled to the chicken shack out of ear shot. your honor.
my lips are sealed and will be listening with half an ear. happy to
converse as well.
X returns from the chickshack
Many had raviolii tonight. ricotta, spinach, lemon.
X is now a Member of Noisebridge
Is spaghetti ravioli? How about pizza with ricotta?
Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and
How’s it all going
James: Is this still a thing?
Ryan: We’re bringing it back! Need money for building out the new space.
From last week we maybe want to do an ADA fundraiser to install a
vertical lift to the 2nd floor. I think a lot of the doors have to be
replaced or have buttons added to open the doors. ada bathroom at new
space on first floor, but has old fixtures, second floor is ancient and
Rikke: When we have keys to 272 Capp, lets figure out what needs to
happen and get quotes on the work. If we can do it ourselves, let’s do
it. Else, let’s pay someone to do it and figure out what it’s going to
cost. Need to get into the space and take measurements. We can start
calling around for the wheelchair lift.
Ryan: I think we should have a state ADA inspector come in. They will
tell us how to make the place ADA accessible. Pretty sure that DIY
Spaces, who helped us with a preliminary inspection, know someone who
can help us out with understanging the ADA work.
Rikke: Do you mean inspector, someone who would certify ADA compliance?
Or ADA consultant who can tell us how to make the place compliant.
From tyler- Called a CASp inspector. David from DIY knows one.
Ryan: If in the next week we could reach out to one. And get input from
the community on what ADA things we need. Do we want every door to have
a wheelchair access button…?
X: Let’s move this to either the moving or ADA discussion items.
Ryan: Can we add fundraising as a 3rd discussion item?
James: Welcome everyone to write in items/thoughts to the notes, under
What is the current state of structural organization at Noisebridge?
- What guilds are active? (Read the active guilds from Guilds wiki
- (For each guild mentioned, ask if guild rep is present for a
brief status update)
- Would you like to join or start a guild? Checkout our guidelines
or contact MetaGuild for help.
Mark: This week will be brief. Meeting on Thursday at 8PM PT. Come to
it. meet.jit.si/metaguild. URL in lastweek’s notes. Figuring out badges
on badger. Requires an email, want an alias for @noisebridge.net. Ask
superq on rack. Tell him alias you want and alias to redirect to. you
can also use email@example.com if you like. James has info.
Dan: Q’ for James, plug-in for events on disucss/calendar Installed, but
needs to be configured. (check) All built into calendar plugin. Was
fully overhauled in the update to Discourse I just installed for July.
Mark: Does anyone else do a guild thing? Have any updates for us this
Ryan: I can give a VR update. Alex is going to work on the VR chat
version of the NB VR project pretty soon. I also will have more time to
work on it soon. We’re going to soon need a lot of 3d models of
different items in the space to an accurate scale to “place” them in the
space to figure out what a good layout/orientation will be. If you have
time/energy, accurate models will be better for VR tours/VR
Rack guild: last week we were focusing on the move and infrastructure.
rack philosophy as simple as possible. Where the rack lived at 2169 in
plain sight to limit chance of hacking. essential infra. everyone has
access to the internet is the basic idea. will inform placement at the
new space. To do: inventory of what can be useable at new space. Could
drop money on an upgrade unless what we have can just migrate as-is.
schedule a cut over date with monkeybrainz to bring 272 capp online. A
good question is:do we have permission from the landlord to get on the
roof and install stuff? someone: i think we need to ask specific
permission from landlord to do stuff like that case by case. mb will
assist and we must carefully move the existing laser hookup. tyler will
help with coordinating with the landlord?
ADA guild: still recruiting a workgroup over the next couple months to
craft a policy and setup the new space. need help with measurements at
capp. message Rikke ada moving and guild channel on discuss.
‘’(Add any items which are consensed upon or so
Discussion Item 1 - Moving
Schedule for packing/cleaning 2169
- Minimal access and numbers in space, as scheduled
Schedule for work and upgrades, then moving, and moving in?
Ryan: Moving strategy during the Pandemic. Comments compiled on a page.
Would be useful to summarize comments. *Starts sharing screen of doc at
Ryan: These are all things related to COVID and our plan ideas. If we
can get this written up in a single page that can be posted wherever we
need it could be useful to let people know what some of our COVID
actions are. Tyler and X are doning a good job limiting the number of
people in the space. Good to have something written up to show we are
taking the pandemic seriously. I am not good at writing things like this
in anything other than bullet points which is not reader friendly.
lxpk: was afk listening, anything about X or ADA now? I like the idea of
having an inspection that would teach us how to implement stuff. Do we
have a time for the ADA guild meeting?
Rikke: Let’s get to ADA in a minute after wrapping up the moving
James: Anything that you’re looking for input on related to the move
that you want discussion around?
Ryan: Yes, lxpk has worked on a sketch up model of the new space. Need
to get some design ideas out and about to plan the layout. One of the
very first steps. Can’t do electrical until we know where we need it.
Same for the ADA buildout. Is the sketch up model ready or does it need
bfb: Layout known in advance would be very useful for ada, electrical,
network. Or ad-hoc with just setting up as we go, but that would be a
mess. In support of a layout and a plan.
lxpk: first floor sketch-up model is done. second floor needs more
X: I can explain the second floor dimensions. The ground floor and the
second floor share a back wall. On the ground floor there are two
extensions that go out beyond the building. Will share more detail
lxpk: will finish up the model soon.
Mark: good to plan certain things, but leave lots of room for
malleability. planning electrical and ada is good. letting people figure
out what spaces are what as we go is also good. we should put all these
things in as many places as possible. while also leaving room for
accessiblity in every little space. We should be arranging and
re-arranging the individual spaces over time, because that’s part of
what makes noisebridge fun!
Ryan: maybe after this meeting we can meeting and collaborate on the
sketch-up model. i have sketchup 2017 on my computer right now to work
on it. the hard part is 240V plugs. you do not want long wires with
240V, need the plugs exactly where the laser cutter, welders, kiln, etc.
will be. no 240V extension chords.
Mark: it is important to figure out where the shops will be.
lxpk: is there an electical resistance cost to having more high-voltage
sockets than we need?
Ryan: i don’t remember the costs to 240V electical buildout. it
shouldn’t use extra energy just to have the plugs. each 240V socket
should be on it’s own breaker.
lxpk: i can see how the costs will add up. will there be a regular
buildout discussion? or should it happen in weekly meetings?
ryan: having a separte buildout meeting before the tuesday community
meeting makes a lot of sense.
james: yes, both items for discussion are related to the buildout of the
space. stack is clear. yay! any other thoughts on moving?
lxpk: Build Guild!@!
Mark: What’s our timeline and where has it been posted?
Tyler: Guessing we’ll get keys in the next 1-2 weeks.
Ryan: We’ll want to measure and start moving in stuff with the buildout.
Tyler set up a nice toolset for all the moving related stuff. Tyler
might have an idea of the order which stuff should be moved.
X: let’s pick this up at 7pm PT on Tuesday and move on to additional
Ryan: All stuff that would be best discussed in the “Moving” catagory,
“terraforming plan” team on discuss.
Mark: We do not have a hard move date yet as we do not have a hard end
to shelter in place yet?
bfb: Just to be clear: we will get the keys soon and start moving things
and building out in a limited capacity, this is separate from
shelter-in-place dates and when we actually start paying rent, etc…
Discussion Item 2 - ADA & Upgrades
Add Yourself to Stack:
1. Your Name
ADA & Upgrades - Please write any specific items below.
Tyler: RE: CASp inspector. David from DIY Spaces knows one, but he was
timid on recommending that we hire them. As david said it was a good
step to prevent us from being sued for ADA. But maybe not the best idea
to hire one for pre-planning. Also it seems like some of the planning
will come after we learn what tools go where. Since one of the main
concerns is to ensure that “everything possible on the second floor
should also be doable on the ground floor” It would be helpful to first
have a layout of what goes upstairs, and what goes downstairs.
Rikke: Speaking to the policy - requesting broader participation in the
effort. Trying to write-up something along the lines of the
anti-harrassment policy to be posted in the space and on the wiki. Also
with respect to the ADA buildout of the new space - let’s talk about how
far down the rabbit hole we’re going to dive. Does anyone have comments
on the balance? E.g. doors with electic buttons vs doors that can be
opened with ease.
Ryan: Doors that can be opened with feet, foot door pulls, doors we
don’t have to touch. Need to have wheelchair width doors. At least some
form of easy-open handle. If the doors are not automated, need to have
an easy way to open.
lxpk: foot and mid-height pushable buttons > foot pulls
Rikki: European-style door handles. Down with the round knobs!
Ryan: discussion of latches that can be mechanically or electically
triggered. all doors need a sci-fi door opening sound. required.
lxpk: footpulls are not a substitute for a button. in principle only
need buttons on the doors to the bathroom, other doors can remain open
during normal hours with a sign on them indicating as much.
ryan: woodshop, metalshop, etc. doors may be closed to contain noise.
lxpk: thoes rooms could have sliding star trek like doors.
James: also cool to have a sensor notifying if bathroom is closed / in
Mark: is a sensor based trigger for a door latch a good idea?
James: have seen this before to indicate if a door is in use.
mark: wondering if that could backfire
james: the people i saw using it loved it. the sensor simply turned a
mark: contact-less doors sounds like a good idea
ryan: way to make electro-mechanical doors work even when the power is
mark: sensors can be used to turn lights on… but can a faulty sensor
lock people out if used on a door latch?
ryan: always have a physical override to the system.
mark: then that’s not a lock
ryan: always want a physical override
*midway down the rabbit hole of doors*
Or skip that locking thing and just have a cool light.
Rikke: has there been any discussion of budget for buildout?
x: fundraising discussion for ada up next is there any difference?
they are fully related. rikke: haven’t hear any numbers kicking around
for the larger buildout. looking for an overall budget, not for specific
things, but general funcationality.
ryan: i’m guessing $100-150K. ~$50k to ada. ~$50K to to electical/hvac.
~$50k to walls, rooms, etc. on the high side. we could do it for a lot
less, but it’s going to be hard since we’re doing this all by the books.
need licensed people for some of the work which adds costs.
bfb: in the past we’ve used consensus for funds far less than this.
curious on process for agreeing to a plan. Will it be piece by piece or
bring together a comprehensive plan with budget and individually
executed items. how can this be done quickly and inclusivly?
james: also curious about this. all the work is interrelated.
ryan: we’ll need the board to sign contracts when working with
contractors. we’re going to want to break this down into somewhat small
chunks. if we find the right people we can do this for ~$60k. break it
down into 4-5 smaller, ~$15k projects.
TYLER: Ok. Main point I’d like to make on buildout cost. Noisebridge (in
it’s current state) was built out over a decade. And we have lived with
very limited shop capabilities. The wood shop has not had ventillation
for 10 years. Its ok if it goes a few more months without building a
full hvac system I know we have more money right now. But rent is higher
at Capp St. And if COVID pushes more people out of the city, noisebridge
will definitely lose some revenue. So I worry about designating $100k of
renovation day 1. Because it could leave us in a very fragile financial
condition 1 year from now.
rikke: i think ryan’s numbers are right. spending it all at once is
going to be painful and potentially ill advised. optimally, we lay out
something roughly like a plan with the things we want to do at some
point and we figure out what order we’re doing them in. doing it
completely peicemeal i am not a particular fan of. we’ll have an easier
time of it all around if we take the time and make the effort to hash
out the bigger things. one of the things i’m trying to hash out is if
we’re going to put in a wheel chair lift to the second floor. ~$30-50k.
bfb: I don’t think the previous consensus was planned to cover extensive
financial costs. I would encourage us for large items like hvac,
wheelchair lift to have discussions about financing these items. Could
come from Noisebridge or we could ask on splitting costs.
ryan: from the prior consensus item proposed April 14, 2020 and
consensed on April 28, 2020.
item 1. The board officers of Noisebridge may enter into loan
agreements, building purchase negotiations, lease negotiations and
building improvement decisions in the interest of acquiring a suitable
building to be our permanent home. This authorization lasts until a
permanent home has been secured, or until Noisebridge has either renewed
the 2169 Mission St lease or signed a new lease and any related building improvement decisions are completed at which time the measure will be ended by a 24 hour Consensus.`
3. In the event that a purchase, lease or building improvement decision
is required in under two weeks, a special meeting may be called with at
minimum 24 hours notice to form a special consensus on the lease,
building improvement or purchase decision. The meeting will occur at
Noisebridge and provide a mechanism (e.g. Google Hangout) for remote
participation. A link will be provided to remote in the 4 channels
described above and the pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting notes.
Ryan “in item”: Authorization should last a bit longer than the moment
of a new lease so that building improvements probably done after lease
is finalized can be decided. Some form of small C consensus or big C
consensus should decide when the item has ended in effect since it
likely will take 3-4 months before we become comfortable in the new
space. Also, add in more things related to each building improvement so
all will trigger a 24 hour special consensus period.
Ryan: In short, these items say we can call a quick consensus in the
event that urgent action is needed. In general, we’ll want to use
tranditional consensus for these items. It also says the board can
authorize the buildout of these things.
bfb- We can call quick emergencty meeting if we need to call for special
concensus, and that the Membership has authorised the board to enter
Rikke: What are folks thoughts on potential high-value projects?
1. Wheelchair lift to the 2nd floor 2. ADA modification to 1st floor
bathroom now and 2nd floor bathroom after the wheelchair lift is
installed. 3. build out for 240v connectors ala laser cutter. 4.
Ventilation system for dirty shop, hot shop with laser and other things
like kiln? AND COVID! (these could be 3 distinct systems, some protable,
others fixed, etc.) 5. Rooms - can we do this ourselves? last time we
got into a heap of trouble winging it. 6. sound proofed rooms (for
recording and for other rooms to keep noise down). possible diy but true
sound proofing is very tough. especially the door and noise bleed.
tyler - we can build rooms ourselves, we just need permits FIRST
tyler: remember what the space looks like. There are aleady three rooms
built. We only need one more room.
Network stuff? bfb: ~$2-3k in total, will try to reuse existing eq as
much as possible. ryan: can be incrementally improved
dan: intrigured to hear hvac and $15k mentioned in the same breath. we
need to think through hvac, airflow and covid safety. what would it take
to safely accomodate 8 people, 12 people? 20 people would be great. the
more we can engineer a space with all kinds of covid safety, the better.
i’m very interested in airflow. contaigen.
BfB- Would designing for covid be useless in long term? If we spend a
Dan- maybe 20k for imediat use of space once we are aboe to reopen, and
how to minimise covid danger with that build out
ryan - a decent general hvac could be useful longterm. hvac
layout/inspection/etc. i recall being confusing. general hvac would be
seperate from the exhaust system needed for the kiln/laser/metal shop
and an exhaust system for the woodshop.
Kevin: Any other items? I think we’ve exhausted the exhaust discussion?
James: Any comments on the ADA Policy?
Mark: Rikke posted good suggestions with research on timelines. Not much
activity on the thread since then. Could be that people are a little
burnt out right now. I know I am super busy with a bunch of different
projects. Happy to help with the ADA policy when I can.
Rikke: Taking a half step back after the discussion at last weeks
meeting. Who is interested in participating in the wording process? Take
time to give it some thought.
Ryan: I’m interested in helping out, but am a bit burned out at the
moment. Still trying to do research into equipment. How we can make sure
to write in stuff that will be followed. Things that are very simple to
Rikke: That’s really good to hear. We can start to recoalesce around
some shared goals.
James: Other apects of ADA to be discussed? Updates or fundraising?
Discusion item 3
Most of these have been discussed in some form already, this could get
picked up on with a Fundraising Guild meeting.
- Funds for ADA
- wheelchair lift
- New projects/space buildout/equipment
- promotion and outreach
For LuLz check out classic cable cut over:
End of Meeting
tyler: signing out too! Sorry was text only this meeting. Hiding from
the cops. Really look forward to a dedicated BUILD GUILD Last couple
points: - Ryan likes fancy expensive toys. He will bankrupt us all! True
(from ryan) - An HVAC unit will involve roof work. And we need landlord
buyin. This will be a longer project. - The downstairs space is a
beutiful giant open room. Let’s not fill it with rooms too quickly.
CAPP ST PLANS: