Communication IS key:value

TAKE WITH GRAIN OF SALT, THESE ARE ONLY IDEAS…

So I’ve barely been listening to any “arguments” as I already have enough of my own to deal with BUT I’m curious if in the conversations if we as a community can acknowledge that if you
Call me a Name/word/idea:
Abelist
Bigot
Homophobe
ECT>
Then I’m going to get angry and tell you to shove it as that is not who I am.
-------------This would be my natural reaction.-------------------
Something I’ve learned from personal experience and would like to share is this.

Pretend Conversation:
P1: “Your an abelist/bigot/Jerk/dickhead/punk…whatever”
P2: “Damn, That hurts, I do not see myself as such”
“BUT… Please tell me what I’m doing that makes you feel this way”

///Being angry is OK, but…
/// IF you leave the anger in there(when trying to communicate) you may say things in an accusatory and bigoted manner that inflame the situation instead of trying to actually resolve the conflict and find a solution and then we go back to square one and have to start over.

P1: " …List of concise non-agressive items that are facts about how the situation makes P1 FEEL "
P2: CAN NOW FEEL EMPATHY for P1
P2: Now P2 feels comfortable changing their behavior and asks “Is there something different I can DO to make you feel more comfortable?”
P1: “Thank you, Yes, It would help me if you could say THIS instead of THAT”
P2: “No Problem, I can do that for you”

STEP 1: Establish EMOTIONAL link.

STEP 2: FEEL the emotions of BOTH sides

STEP 3: Find a solution TOGETHER and possibly change any BEHAVIORS.

Please see: https://www.cnvc.org/ for reference.

We are a community, We are family, We are lovers. The emotional baggage that can come with those kinds of stresses and responsibilities can lead us to say some pretty shitty things. I believe in us, in our community and that we can solve the communication issue we are having.

ONE SIMPLE TRICK TO REMOVE ANGER FROM CONVOS…
Just remove it. take a breath, wait and put yourself in the other persons shoes just for a second, and then respond with very personal things about YOU, not the other person. Open up and show that you are HURT, You are only angry because you are HURT in some way. The way forward is love. Finding the thing that can help the convo, not inflame it will bring a solution faster…

I mean we all just wanna party anyway right?

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I will say that there is a special edge-case here. That special case is: the person you are talking with is the son/daughter of a psychologist.

My ex-wife is the daughter of a note-worthy Stanford psychologist. So of course she grew up with a brilliant father (Mensa) in a completely dysfunctional family. Her mother was clinically depressed and stayed in bed for years. My ex herself spent several years in therapy before I married her—I assumed that she was mentally healthy at that point.

That said, during our marriage if she was sparring for an argument and I met her with your suggestion of zero-anger response, this subconciously triggered in her some latent anger toward her own father. (Imagine a father who’s cool, calm and has the potential for being mean but all delivered within this psychologist interface.)

So, if you try your zero-anger response and this ellicits a completely unexpected heightening of anger, you might remember this scenario.

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What a very non-excellent response, 1mma. But thank you for joining in.

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@1mma , I think that Noisebridge exists where we say it does. Like love it’s not real, but it exists because we say so. Therefore I think this online version is Noisebridge. I also think that Countries have gone to war over miscommunication and we should value every word spoken as an input.{especially now in the digital real} Especially when someone @OutsourcedGuru is sharing a personal life story. Is asking a real question, and did say EDGE CASE at the beginning.

@OutsourcedGuru I need to clarify/alter: maybe not a zero anger response, but a zero aggression response?

I would love to know what both of you think about this:
https://www.oohctoolbox.org.au/anger-and-aggression#:~:text=While%20anger%20is%20a%20feeling,or%20verbal%20threats%20or%20insults.

More personal theory: I will show anger and hurt and pain, and fear on my face. And situation dependant may ask for a minute so that I can grab a mediator and not SAY or DO somthing that I will regret. #NO-REGURTS Our immediate reactions & emotions will be past-dependant (how you grew up, how you were treated yesterday, how you were…) but what we do or say in return after we get the emotion will depend on our training and practice in controlling how we respond.

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Responding to the linked article, I often find that anger is a secondary reaction to fear in many cases if not most.

My father was a Naval Drill Instructor. So my childhood involved dealing with someone as a father figure who was over-the-top. I then went to the military so of course I went through boot camp. I have to say that those two events have really created in me someone who is relatively fearless. And a natural outcome then is less anger, I’d guess, than the average person’s.

Having been on forums for some time now—I created a suicide-prevention forum—it wouldn’t surprise me if 1mma (2 days on the forum) is a sockpuppet of nthmost.

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And the toggling back/forth between the identities begins with nthmost “liking” 1mma’s responses and vice versa.

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If I like your idea… There may be one part of it that excites me and that I actually agree with, and there may be another that I don’t…within the same thought. hitting that little heart is too easy and is akin to an instgram like…where as a text response would carry more weight… I’d say let it ride and see what is said?

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I like that @1mma is speaking up, after mentioning they felt a bad emotion and not speaking up. In other posts they speak well about things in a logical manner…here I see a divergence and wonder if there is something more that needs to come out.?

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Maybe on another thread? (original post said the same thing but was more loaded)

Hashing out what each person needs, Maybe a different thread…but this thread is fine. Maybe starting a section or thread on communication examples, Like a craigslist needs help wated AD: giving or receiving communication, communication practice, and general knowledge about such? maybe: “Noisebridge communication protocol”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_protocol#:~:text=A%20communication%20protocol%20is%20a,and%20possible%20error%20recovery%20methods.

It’s a bit over the top but I’d like to see it as a reference rather than a rule.
AND to stay focused on communication during Building, Hacking, Business, Community DEV?

links to stuff like this: ?
https://businessculture.org/indian-business-culture/business-communication/#:~:text=Indian%20people%20use%20every%20possible,firm%20and%20friendly%20hand%20shake.&text=Shaking%20the%20hands%20is%20common,and%20departure%20from%20a%20meeting.

Commenting on personal communication in one’s life would be “too much” for many. Anyways the good habits of Great Communication built for doing things like work, business, trade ect can trickle back or be used as models for home/personal life.

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I think I meant there is a tension in some earlier comments that could be talked about, but would hijack the main point of this conversation.

I’d like to thank you for bringing up these. It would be nice to have a formal communication protocol. Perhaps we have some more formal outlines for being Excellent? (After seeing the Bill and Ted, the irony of formally defining “Be Excellent” is not lost on me haha).

Personally, I think this can be normalized by do-ocracy. If enough people try and mediate conversations, and attempt to diffuse conflict, we can establish a community that sees this as expected. But I realize that 's a lot to ask from the do-ocrats haha

you are right. it is an unexcellent response. i regret it and will try to better discuss.

i do read anger in roboto’s original scenario. empathy does not mean passive or pleasant to me. perhaps an answer is taking a breath before saying something. i wish i had.

re-read the edge case and i can understand her latent anger. good of you to assume the best in her.

as a nb family we can do much better. i’ll think about how i can do the same.

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Without knowing all of the context here, I would offer a couple insights from my own experiences:

  • Calling something ableist/homophobic/etc doesn’t necessarily mean calling someone a jerk or a bad person. Within many communities and discourses, it’s taken for granted that oppressive ideas are ubiquitous, even within our own brains. So, when responding to such ideas, it’s also worth assessing where the person is coming from. If they didn’t mean to say “you suck” by it, then interpreting it as such would be an overreaction, and would needlessly escalate things.
  • The perception of anger can be political. That is, in the experience of many women, people of color, queer and trans people (for instance), it’s common to be perceived as angry when you’re not actually angry - to the point that this is a recurring pattern. It’s even been studied and documented at length. Because of this, it’s extra important to remember to assume good faith and good intent, and give the benefit of the doubt, to people who are socially marginalized.

Thanks, everybody, for moving this conversation along in good faith! Much love from here in Oakland.

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I noticed some recent posts that are packed with emotions. I don’t intend to deny emotions. While over the years, one thing I learned as a designer and a person is aligning our action with our intention. Before hitting the send button, check if you intend to unleash emotions, or to solve a problem. What kinds of impact we’re trying to create? Do our messages lead to a favorable outcome (and to whom)?
Also, remote communications, especially text-only, can easily be interpreted in a tone that you may not intend or expect. We are communicating with each other, not to pixels.

Oh, wow. You are awesomeness itself.

You have to forgive me, I was a professor in 2018 and often attempt to dispense wisdom at moments. Online, people can’t see my age, my grey hair or the other clues that suggest such things.

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